Let us know your thoughts in the comments below! You need to be a little more specific. .45 caliber merely refers to the diameter of the bullet. There are a large variety of cartridges that fire b Theres been many people shot and continue. WebWhen youre in the midst of dealing with an attack, the reduction in blood flow to your hands (along with the chemical changes in your body) will likely result in an increase in your pain threshold. Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as knock-down power. The only thing that can knock a target down is physiological incapacitation or psychological stress. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will generally not penetrate the outside skin of a car body. Both are great calibers. Thats good, it is always good for people to find what works best for them. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 Concealed Carry Inc. All Rights Reserved. What we do know, however, is that when most people are shot, they fall down. Ive hunted with both 9 and 45. I use a 1911 as thats what I learned on, prefer the way it feels in my hand. All rights reserved. The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. At 880 fps a 230 grains projectile has 395 foot pounds of muzzle energy. But we generally would refer to them as cartridges or rounds as a bullet is just the projectile portion encased in a cartridge and loaded into the firearm. He gets there with his partner and the front door of the bus opens. This translates to a simple formula for shooting success: practice, practice, practice. Asking that question around gun owners is like bringing up religion or politics at a party. Garand Thumb 2.84M subscribers 4.2M views 1 year ago 9mm vs 45 ACP, the age old debate and the one that Just imagine what it might have been like had you had to perform a reload in that situation? I have handgun hunted for over 25 yrs and enjoy it immensly, and also do a lot of reloading.IF a guy wants to carry a 45 or 9 or anything else and are comfortable and proficient with either, then why not? This was not a good CC carry eather so for a while I did not carry CC. Ill take an M4, even with the M855 green-tip ammo that everyone says sucks, over an MP40 or a Thompson or any handgun any day of the week. Very smart Chris ! I thought a 55 115lb girl with small hands would want a .380, so I was surprise when she chose a Walther PPS in 9mm. I cant compare to 9mm but I still want to carry 45acp. Whether it hits the shoulder, the leg, arm, hip, whatever. 15 -25 yards lol I can hit you in between the eyes with my co2 bb pistol. Web45 ACP Ammo | 45 ACP Ammo for Sale | Ammunition Depot 3/2/2023 ON SALE Ammunition Bulk Ammo Bulk 223 Ammo Bulk 9mm Ammo Bulk 45 ACP Ammo Bulk 380 Ammo Bulk 308 Ammo Bulk 7.62x39 Ammo Bulk 22 LR Ammo Bulk Pistol Ammo Bulk Rifle Ammo Bulk Shotgun Ammo Handgun Ammo 9mm Ammo 380 Ammo 45 ACP Ammo 38 Special The pistol with speed loaders will get me to the riffels then game over if not over yet. Hunt! Lethality by Caliber: Whats the Best Handgun Caliber For You? Either will get the job done for protection. You get Into a real shooting scenario. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position you can make a crowd of men. But ideally you need a brush rifle. Riley, love your artical. A 5 psi blast overpressure will rupture eardrums in about 1% of subjects, and a 45 psi overpressure will cause eardrum rupture in about 99% of all subjects. I am at a loss for words as I read the above two paragraphs like literally at a loss for words. 2 from 15 ft, 2 from 25 ft, jumping to 2 from 50 ft. And 2 from 100ft. The money has to come from somewhere. So if my pill hit my target in a less than optimal body section with ball ammo, Ill opt for the bigger ball every time. Im an athletic guy so handling the recoil is not too bad. I seen it first hand as well. I have several 1911 pistols. And let us not forget the adrenaline factor. The pool of cartridges in the study are grouped which makes the data integrity less reliable but each group of larger calibers exhibit significant percentage better lethality. Youve been practicing with your weapon on a consistent basis. This recent policy change and operational change means the U.S. Marine Corps' special arm of SOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) has also come to terms with the debate of 9mm vs. .45ACP. 3 rounds all center mass within 2 inches of each other. That alone could be a convincing argument to switch platforms. Good job Chris and the rest of you but remember when you give gun advise target shooting and self defense shooting are two different scenarios and one can get you deadyou cant shoot my gun as good as me but you can shoot your gun because its the best one for you. I have 9 mm and I own mostly 45 ACPs, I can conceal a combat Commander with a small of the back holster with shorts T-shirt and flip-flops and nobody will know its there. Makes no difference to me. I sort of like the Canik TP9v2, with Browning BXP xpoint 147 gr load. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. Our only requirement is that you give Ammo.com appropriate credit by linking to the original article. In their book, Defense of Self and Others, FBI firearms training experts John Hall and Urey Patrick (ret. It also drops in Air Drops, rarely as Tier Chest loot, or very rarely spawn as Tier World loot. , Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. We had competant and caring armorers and shooting instructors ( These guys gave a fuck and went out of their way for you ). But its a good idea to carry a backup gun, and 2 spare mags that use the same ammo. Also another fact is that my Kimber Colt 45 actually has less recoil than my 9mm with an aluminum frame when my 9mm has a full steel from. of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the bullet. Semiautomatic rifles dont shoot the largest bullets on the market. It goes in a like a nail.. I seem to recall reading in Rangemaster newsletter a month or two ago an FBI paper making the FMJ case. arrow moving at what velocity.200 feet per second? However, in a self-defense situation, the object isnt to kill your attacker; its to end their ability to cause you harm as quickly as possible. There are four major handgun founding factors. There is also the very real factor of life-or-death, fight-or-flight stress. Using the cone attack gives you a low ammo condition that imposes disadvantage on attack rolls until you reload, and you have 2 reloads per day. Because you are making a decision based on the fact that something (9mm) didnt work. But if stopping power is your only indicator of success in battle, then I suggest a WWII 16 inch navy rifle same as the Battleship Missouri ! He also competes in USPSA and 3-gun competitions including numerous top-10 finishes at major matches and championships. He watched MARSOC during a multi-national special forces competition, MARSOC couldnt compete with the low capacity 1911. But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. In other words, negative acceleration and a non-linear path are both occurring. Training, muscle memory, nerves, etc dictate to me, that the harder hitting rounds are far more apt to keep me going home in the morning. It can also destroy your aim, and the strongest bullet on earth is useless if it doesnt hit the bad guy coming at you. The 9mm isnt a garbage round but feeling better with these 230 grain Winchester Rangers loaded on my side. This is pretty interesting BTW https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/. An exit wound differs greatly from an entrance wound. So they downvote actual biological functions here. My point being, is animals dont always die the same. A 7.6225 is venerated as so amazing by PPsh humpers. While the classic .45 ACP round is large, its also relatively slow, with an average velocity of 850-900 FPS for most types of ammo. And if Im responsible enough to use a firearm to fight for my government, Im responsible enough to own a firearm to protect myself and loved ones. Many factors, including the moisture content, knot content, tree age and even the separation of the boards, can give rise to highly variable results. I personally dont find much difference in recoil between a compact 9mm and compact .40 S&W; but I recognize and am sympathetic to other shooters who do. So, yes, they are looking at it with the assumption that modern 9mm JHP bullets perform very similarly to .40s&w and .45acp, and thus will move toward 9mm loadings for sidearms. Over time, conditions that damage the liver can lead to scarring (cirrhosis), which can lead to liver failure, a life-threatening condition. No regrets. If it works for our troops no matter where it is made thats the one we want. I know they dont keep records like this; but if you could count all the rounds fired in a battle, and how many kills were made by each caliber; would that not be a better indicator of the efficiency of the caliber. A 4 inch Redhawk 45 colt loaded with 24 grains of H100 under a 335 grain Cast performance sledgehammer should be good against the largest carnivore Todd. Taurus 45 .45 ACP is not the one-shot-stopping hammer that some people think it is. Most rounds fired do not hit anyone at all. Millenials and their bias arguments. Core, you touch on something that I have often thought about. The only argument I have ever heard that actually makes any sense is the most recent comment where former law enforcement States the possibility of collateral damage from over penetration. This, as with any other type of penetration test, is plagued with inaccuracies. I also read a recent article about a fishing guide who shot and killed a grizzly bear with a 147gr, 9mm from a S&W 3913. Just bless his little Prsident heart. Projectiles incapacitate by damaging or destroying the central nervous system, or by causing significant and potentially lethal blood loss. I would easily give credit to the Colt 45 on reliability accuracy and range, my 9mm all it really does better is shoot faster because it has a 4 lb. there is no substitute for Cubic Inches. And speed kills barriers. The bear was shot in the head through the screen.it was a one shot stop but needed another round to finish him off. You have renewed my faith in man. It worries me that you feel safe carrying a .45 acp around bears and moose. But I have some serious doubts about his understanding of external and terminal ballistics. /9mm has a lot more options when it comes to ammo but I prefer my Springfield XD .45 or my Kimber Custom II 1911. Secondly, if you you tube ballistic testing of the 9mm and 45acp, lets say using Federal HSTs you will see that the 9mm round is more than capable and every bit as functional as the 45 in getting the job done. I settled on a 9-round single-stack .40 S&W that has almost identical dimensions to the same pistol in 9mm. Maybe if you were trying to make 100+ yard shot thatd make a little difference. Love it. Thank you Rich if you need 15 rounds to put down the assailant youre in trouble already, I have not near the experience of some of the veterans in the service. Its hesitation that makes people miss. The question isnt how many people die from being hit with a certain a round, but rather what do they do immediately after being hit?. Which would put a bullet in the lower chest area with variance of the bullet which can be 2-3 or even 5-6. It was by far the easiest serviced pistol in the field, go ahead and get the lighter frame lighter weight ceramic /plastic and all that junk its fine as long as youre in a urban environment. Platt was killed at the end of the gunfight, but not before unleashing deadly mayhem. This is accomplished through simple physics; a larger bullet imparts more force into its target than a smaller one. Look for a box or option labeled Home Page (Internet Explorer, Firefox, Safari) or On Startup (Chrome). Being only 30 the 9mm argument was often a argument and war waged by my generation of officer. It may take 2 rounds to take someone down, but the shooter will have a lot easier follow up shots with the smaller 9mm. If you cant always hunt effectively with it, is it big enough? Space radiation is made up of protons and all the elements on the periodic table. Would the same shot with More bullet have made a difference i think not. Trailing was easy in snow, but took nearly a mile to put down with another shot low through the heart. .45 ACP (230gr) One of the main reasons why military personnel and many LEOs made the switch to 9mm handguns was because of the deeper bullet penetration. You may be knocked down and have to squeeze off a once and last shot to save you life. 7.62 leads the damage potential, followed by 5.56, followed by 45 and finally 9 mm. Let the operators in theater chose what they want. What I have also seen on the range at 25 yards, while shooting steel silhouette time after time, was the 9mm would fail to kick the silhouette out of the track 7 out of 10 times without placing another shot. 7.62 isn't pistol ammunition though. This post has been updated to include information released by the FBI regarding the weapon used in the shooting. and I guess $$.. This is what can incapacitate a target, even with a poorly placed torso shot. The one that traveled the furthest was looking back over its shoulder and was hit in the muzzle. Matthew McConaughey tells the story of those killed in Uvalde in emotional plea for action on guns. and have shot that enough also to hit well with it. I carry 9mm JHP for EDC and also use JHP in the .40 High Point. Oh and dont give me the garbage about 9mm has come a long way since its inception. If you havent got JHP or ballistic tip bullets in the 9mm gun your in trouble. The 45 1911 did just that. The body's liver, pancreas and kidneys also can make about 1 gram of creatine per day. If I put p++ in my 9 mm, its going to hurt like hell! .45 ACP FMJ doesnt normally make bad people flop to the ground instantaneously unless it hits the brain or spinewhich is probably what happened, given his skills. My department switched to +p for 45s. I prefer the .45 ACP. How does air resistance have ANYTHING to do with the terminal ballistics as they relate to penetration? Please dont send me any hate mail. Not to suggest that a skilled shooter (and/or soldier or Marine) couldnt shoot it, but almost anybody is going to be faster with a 9mm in their hands. Hollow points are designed to rapidly expand after hitting a target, causing as much damage as possible and reducing the chance of overpenetration. That use the same ammo is the way for me. How about that..most people shot by handguns survive. In my book Lethal Force and the Objectively Reasonable Officer, I point out that after the FBI shootout in Miami, the FBI Firearms Training Unit, under the leadership of Unit Chief John Hall, tested 9mm, 10mm and .45 caliber rounds. Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. Like John Saunders, I also used a M1D scoped. Dr. Leana Wen, a trauma surgeon and the health commissioner for Baltimore, about the especially devastating effects of expanding rounds: often. With practice almost anything is possible. Cpl. Now that has some stopping power and even at 600 yards. All this is much different than the British Armys approach to marching headfirst into conflict, taking aim and firing. .40 S&W I carry 180 grain HP. Okay 9s are cool, hold a lot of rounds, small recoil, cheap to shoot and buy. WebSearch: 45 Acp Damage Human Body. The 9mm leaves the muzzle on average at 1100 feet per second, NOT 1500. The 45 ACP is my choice of a Heavy Hitter. In any event, I used that data when shopping for a lighter and more easily concealed EDC than my .357 magnum revolver and hi-cap .45 ACP. I checked him out, and he's legit as far as that title is concerned and where he works. spot on ! So they fudge the data. So any caliber is better than none. Where aim for the middle of the whole body. Just some REAL world observation not keyboard commando stuff. I doubt a .45 would have allowed that.also know a guy who took 10 shots of 9mm at close range in a robbery and survived and is healthy and surfs, shooter must have had terrible aim. But the major difference is that you would have been 2 rounds away from having to reload as compared to 6 rounds in the case of a Glock 17. Pistols are primarily used for close combat. The .223 weighs in at 55 grains, while the .22 is usually 45 grains or smaller. When they strike, the bullets rotate, and more of their surface hits the body. Your story could have just as easily gone the same way but with a Glock 21 (similar to Timothy Gramins experience). The Glock 17/19 could be a possibility as well, though, as there are plenty of them already in the inventory, and the P320 also seemed destined for the FBI (which had similar requirements), but they suddenly settled on the Glock at the last minute. Because capacity equals TIME. As might be expected, larger-diameter bullets produce more devastating wound cavities and have a greater likelihood of striking vital organs. Not to kill but enough to let us get to our guys or a firearms. I am older now, living in the city. Never held a weapon till boot camp. With the way things are going today I decided it was time to carry again. The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds. I just make it my business to shoot all handgun cartridges well out to 25yards. In each of the three most common law enforcement handgun calibers (9mm Luger, .40 S&W, .45 Auto), there are some projectiles that have a high likelihood of success for officers (i.e., all three are very effective). He was a deputy sheriff. Shooting survivors and their caregivers describe a lifetime of chronic pain, repeated surgeries years after being shot, and challenges to everyday living that come from losing parts of vital organs, like a woman who has to buy her son expensive protein shakes after he lost much of his stomach. I however still allowed to carry a 45 and, will as long as I am able to. I imagine humans are the same. I have a Ruger American 9 mm full size and its twin in a 45 caliber, I will say yes the 45 caliber is a larger round with more in a way push behind it, but I totally agree with the proper placement of that round when firing is the deciding factor. I have yet to see this. Now marine I hope your watching now instead of using glock 19 in a 9mm counterpart here is a better suggestion why dont you use a glock 21 4th gene to insure ur fellow colleges a better a faster on the spot accuracy with zero recoil it will enable them to be more successful in hitting targets. Damage: 23. Avoid contact with other people's blood and body fluids. In Walmart I carry a p99 Walter. They will simply leave their buddy there to die (and hopefully be able to take one of us with him). You know, Indians killed each other, white settlers, and hunted with a bow &. If knock down power is desired forget the 45 and get a 44 mag or get a 375 they kill most anything one shot. I am sorry for your incounter. However, others say that the lowly .22 LR has the best stopping power, since it stays in the targets body and bounces around, shredding arteries and punching holes in internal organs. Ruger already dominates the American handgun market, and they are very profitable, so it may not have been worth it to them. you should read TIFU my boss shot me reddit. WebThe 45 will but them down and bleed them out real quick with a gut shot, the 9mm will have them flopping around and may not stop them from firing back, also from the pools of blood near the bodies the 45 does more damage. All righty then, I started with 38 caliber revolvers in the early 70s, 53 yrs later, since few people carry revolvers, capacity, I have bounced back and forth and keep ammo for both 9mm and 45.